4.1 Please take it back!

So after a few days of attempting to get 3 sites upgraded to 4.1 I've officially given up. It's like Telerik is intentionally trying to screw me over.

Reasons I can't move forward with 4.1:
1. SiteMapPath no longer works, my side menu relied on this (apparently was broken in an internal build prior to 4.1 but never fixed)
2. Random pieces of content get inserted into place holders on the page. Content appears to come from page revision history even if those previous versions have been deleted from system.
3. Pages in backend randomly reorder themselves. They still display in correct order in front end but backend doesn't display them even if they've been manually reordered. Minor issue for me, but major issue for my clients so it's a show stopper.
4. News and Events widgets can't be edited, cause looping javascript error. (may be Chrome/Safari only but this is both my primary browser and client's browser).

That's only scratching the surface, I'm sure I would find more new bugs if I was willing to waste more of my time. A quick scan of the forums shows that many others are have a number of other issues that are new to 4.1

I think Telerik needs to take a close look at their resources and priorities. I think an eCommerce module at this point (even though it's an aquisition) is a foolish move. The product is far from stable and focus and resources should be put on putting out a reliable and usable release and not working on new features/modules that are sure to be bug ridden as well.

As Vassil said to me in these forums " If our “best” is not good enough then maybe it’s time to move on." I have moved on for future projects but unfortunately for my current live site and two in development this isn't an option as I'm already very much committed. (Surprising that he'd rather see a loyal customer of years move on rather than address the internal quality control issues.)

So please please take 4.1 back, fix the bugs, test it thoroughly and release a new 4.1 that is actually usable. I really and truly wish we had 3.7 back, it had it's ups and downs but had become a really solid product. 

Hoping the Easter Bunny brings some bug fixes!

Phill

Edit: I need to correct point 3 above, the sort order is incorrect in the front end too. So I have no way of having my pages in the correct order, front end or back end, totally F&*k'd!

Has any 4.1 Upgrade post (aside from the Add_Data security) ones even been officially addressed at all?  I see responses asking for WCF traces, but no followup and certinaly nothing resembling fixes.  I can't even get a response to a 4.1 fix for an official 24 hour guaranteed response ticket.  So right now it's 4.5-5 days I've been dead in the water unable to work on these sites.

I pretty much have the same issues as you along with profile controls being crashy (depending on where you go or what you do) and the Lists module unable to create ListItems.  I can make the lists...as long as it doesn't require items...

Re-creating pages is far from an elegant solution for projects running since RC->Release.  I have SO MANY internal hyperlink ("Select a page from this site") references in my content.

I still love the underlying framework we have here, the clientside bits and layout controls are awesome...but come on this "Upgrade" is a bloody NIGHTMARE.  I feel like it's the 4.1 release date thing all over again...days and days with nobody telling us what's going on.

I totally agree with Phil: Take 4.1 back or better bring 4.2....without new features but with performing existing offered functions.

As I tried to describe yesterday: user management, role based permissions to pages or (as promoted: with higher granulation ...) to parts of pages do not work any longer. Sitefinity 4.1 is definitely the wrong tool for building intranet and extranet sites. If anybody in our community has plans for websites with different roles should look for another toolset but not Sitefinity 4.1 as long as this will not be corrected!

Have a look at this: 

http://www.sitefinity.com/devnet/forums/sitefinity-4-x/bugs-issues/problems-with-restricted-page-access-for-special-users-and-their-roles.aspx

And once more: no reaction comes from sitefintiy itself !!!!

Robert

Here is a reaction, although that's not really what any of you are looking for.  You want solutions and I don't have any to provide.  I'm learning along with the rest of you.

Steve, you and I do share a List Module issue with our projects.  The team has my project, but I've not heard a fix.  I attempted to fix it myself, but apart from seeing a non-specific error through Firebug (which you also reported) I don't have any great insight.

We're now heading into Easter weekend (which probably isn't called Easter in BG).  The team is working with limited capacity during this weekend (see the main forums page for the disclaimer).  I've seen some internal emails and several people have volunteered to work through tickets over this holiday.

We're listening (we certainly never ignore these posts), but there is a mix of research, assessment, high-demand and holidays that are working against all of us.  

I'm not sure if this post will help.   /:|

Gabe Sumner
Telerik | Sitefinity CMS

It does thanks :)  Just need to know people are aware of the problems and us "Upgraders" (not new installs) aren't being left out in the cold. 

I sent over a fiddler of the issue and they have my project, so I hope it can be replicated....the other WCF services return fine, it's just this one....and only happens on the LIST ITEM listview.  I can see the list of lists, and directly create list items, but trying to view the children just tanks.

Just adding my voice to the complaints here. I had, and still have (sort of), high hopes for SF 4, but when I saw how jacked up my dev site was after this upgrade I seriously wanted to throw the whole thing overboard. Unfortunately I have people using and relying on the prod version of this site, so that is not an option.

I am, however, reconsidering my decision to use SF at this point. It seems like it was unrealistic to trust it for production use right out of the gate. So, I will NOT be applying the 4.1 upgrade to production and will just limp along as best I can with 4.0 until a release comes along that is actually usable.

Our 4.0 dev site got messed up as well. The telerik guys said the templates were "broken" on the home page and I needed to recreate them. We'll all the pages in the site utilize the same base template, and changing a template on a page removes ALL the content.

So, we've punted on the upgraded dev server and are setting up 4.1 fresh on a different box hoping it will be better if we start clean. Obviously the upgrade path to 4.1 was a bumpy road.

Gabe,

I just want to jump in here and say that yes, your response helps.  Actually all your responses help.

I think what some of us are struggling with is an issue of feeling unheard, which just intensifies as time passes in silence.  Posts have gone for days without an official response, and the 24 hour ticket response has tended to be way more than 24 hours.  I personally went over a week with an open ticket without even a "We got this and are working on it" message.  When you are staring at the yellow screen of pain or repeating javascript error alerts at 1am, you want the sense that your software partner is listening and responding, that you have somewhere to go for help.

Any words from you guys, even (and sometimes especially if) it is simply an admission that you have no answers, is worthwhile to me. 

So thanks.  I'm hanging in with 4.1 and hoping for the best...

- William

I agree with Phil totally, Please take 4.1 back and make 4.2 better work.
I do not think no one need a e-commerce module at this point. We need a functioning CMS like 3.7 at least.
Most of the parts seems like not tested or tested with a limited data. Remember selecting an image without paging. etc.
Please use Sitefinity 4.1 on sitefinity.com then you will understand us..
Regards

Ok so, I don't see any sticky posts on this...so I think I'll just post this here

1) The issues with duplicated content\layouts is a bug and is apparently being worked on and rolled into a hotfix.  I have no more details other than that...but good news no doubt!
2) Profile exceptions: ...no idea...anyone else hear anything from a ticket?
3) Lists module is still in "Beta" apparently, I've mentioned this before though..no news if the hotfix resolves those issues as well but I would imagine so.

Hi,

Steve, thanks for trying to answer the questions. 

We are going to release an internal build this week fixing the most reported issues since the 4.1 release. 

HUZZAH!

Unfortunately I don't share your excitement Steve. An internal build is just that, for internal use only and isn't supported against future upgrades. So it means that those of us that had been waiting for 4.1 to launch a site now have to wait for 4.2. I'm about to contact my one client and tell them this news and I'm 99% that after today they won't be my client any longer and I can't blame them.

I'm now thinking that January 2012 will be when SF4 finally comes out of beta and reaches proper release status (stability and functionally complete). I know they're working hard but after 4 months since release not much has changed at all.

@Phil
  I only say that knowing the internal will hopefully let me do a smooth upgrade...and according to Mr. Georgi we'll have a real hotfix in a couple weeks.

http://www.sitefinity.com/devnet/forums/sitefinity-4-x/general-discussions/will-there-be-4-1-hotfix-not-just-an-internal-build.aspx

I have a conf call today @7 to talk about requirements for a site which we were thinking to implement SF4+ e-commerce on which I think will be dead after we talk today, just not enough of a profit margin to make my time worth it.

@Georgi
  I can provide a copy of a dead upgrade project for your QA people to test with...(I can provide the 4.0 version)

At this point I'd be happy to see a list of all these bugs, detailed description and the expected release date of the fix. There are so many different issues going on at the same time I'm unclear as to any of my issues are nearing a fix or even acknowledged.  The current approach of "we're fixing things and we'll tell you what later" isn't cutting it. Days of lost time and constant nagging to get support questions answered is not what I purchased.

The rest of the teams at Telerik are doing a great job and staying ahead of it's competitors...

Just look at the products they've released this week... JustTrace and JustDecompile... 

Is it wrong to expect the same kind of professionalism from Sitefinity Team? Why are they treating their clients like Guinea Pigs?

Can you guys try to upgrade Sitefinity.com and see all the errors for yourself instead of letting your client find out about it?

Hello,

We are starting to roll service updates guys. Yesterday we've pushed an internal build which fixes the most critiical issues found shortly after the release. We are also planning on service pack by the end of the next week, and then one more, most probably in the mid of June (still not decided when exactly).

@Larry
Is it wrong to expect the same kind of professionalism from Sitefinity Team? Why are they treating their clients like Guinea Pigs?

I agree.  I am so annoyed right now, and I am not even the one paying for this (my company is).  I am just a developer and this is really frustrating.  Serves me right for making promises to my boss using an untested product but Telerik Sitefinity do need to take responsibility for releasing  SF4 as it was.  Even with this SP1, I am still beat, broken and frustrated.  I can't deliver the stuff to my boss, because even the simplest of things are missing or broken i.e. tagging, categorisation, creating a permission and assigining a page group - either I am met with unfriendly .NET errors because I am doing something wrong, or odd SF behaviour such as odd content in a page which is clearly due to a bug. 

From development perspective, I personally find the the guides difficult to follow, and the samples a matter of a puzzle rather than an illustration as to how one can do something like create a module - I appreciate Telerik have gone to efforts to put it all together, but I really think they need a "dumb*** user" approach and not expect us all to have a Telerik degree; I need explanations as to why things are done rather than just how to copy and paste code.

Personally I would realllllly appreciate it if the Telerik Community (i.e. anyone that isn't working for Telerik) to share working example projects (no matter how small or big).  Even a simple project containing various pages as to how create a user, permission, role programatically - I know I have done this in version 3.X and have started to do this for 4.X, and I am 100% sure that anyone new to SF would appreciate these projects.

Rant over.
Richard

Hey Georgi,
  Problem for me was I did not realize until Gabe mentioned it, that you guys don't support upgrades from internals...so while it may fix issues, I'm building these sites local (migrating content\etc) then deploying that database up to live later.  So updating to it wouldn't really help me much since I couldn't officially move to release from there.  So while I'm sure it would be fine (upgrading from internal to release) I certainly don't want to bork support for issues,

Steve

So Richard,

 where is my Sitefinity 4 website you promised me then? ;-)