PEG - Progress Email Group?

Hmm... you're right - the last email I have was end of May as well.

http://www.peg.com/ now has just a web page and

  Any questions? Email me@peg.com

I've sent "me" a question asking who they are and what their plans are for the domain.

Whois link:

www.whois.com/.../peg.com

The contact is andy@booth.com. Going to "booth.com" gets this:

The domain name Booth.com is currently used in relation to the acquisition of domain names.

If you require information or want to contact a member of the Booth.com team, email us by clicking here.

I'm thinking the domain registration wasn't renewed and someone else jumped on it.

Sad end for the best progress forum it was

Sad indeed , was still there in March 2016

web.archive.org/.../

Anyone friends with Greg Higgins and can find out what the story is? Would be a shame to see the thing die completely.

From Greg, "I shut it down and sold the domain.".

Le PEG est mort, vive le PEG! so sad (

Unfortunately it's not like with the French kings .... as the domain peg.com seems gone and the new owner does not intend to sell it for any price.

So Progress Communities, Stack Overflow, or ProgressTalk have to pick up. It would be nice it someone could get a list of the old PEG subscribers and email them the alternative forums.

Yes. Stack Overflow has also gotten a bit of traction in the past.

It would just be nice to be able to direct those that were just subscribed to the PEG to the alternatives.

If peg.com is gone, there's nothing stopping us from getting a new domain, putting a mailing list pkg on that and running with that.

... and keep distributing the community even more?

It's really sad PEG is gone. But wouldn't it make way more sense to concentrate on the forums already there?

i.o.W. do we need another forum?

Completely agree with Mike here. The only real loss in the whole business is the archive of questions/answers.

I'm with Mike. One or two forums is good enough, especially if they are indexed by Google. Good exposure in stackoverflow would also be nice, since this is sometimes an argument to dismiss OpenEdge ("you can't find almost nothing about OpenEdge on StackOverflow"). It's getting better however.

I've used Peg since I become a progress developer. Shame to see it go. But have found that more has been getting posted/answered on here for the past while.

Because the alternatives cited so far are all web based and some developers don't have access to them, only email.

The archive could be re-created from people who've been logging emails on this site as well.

This site works fine by email only once you've signed up.

you can start a new thread via email? Near as I can tell you can only respond to posts from here.

Sure! Just email TU.OE.General@community.progress.com

I agree about the sadness in the fact that the PEG is gone. I've been a paying member since 1999 and has of course been following it since then.

I don't have any mails left from the time 1999 - 2005 but from May 2005 when I started to use a dedicated gmail account for the peg mails I have all the +30 000 mails still in the account (peg and dba that is). I'm sure many of you also has kept the mails.

It will take some time to get used to NOT look through my peg mails.

With all this said, I also think that the forums here and perhaps StackOverflow is enough right now. Better to gather all the knowledge in few places.

Thanks Greg (you don't remember me but we have talked several times during conferences), I know it has been a struggle to keep the Peg up and running. But you have done hell of a job doing so!

/Daniel

Does this really still exist? Public email is no problem but http(s) is? Really? And a smartphone is no option either? Even if it did, just setting up something like this would defeat any obscure purpose one might try to invent for such oddity http://wiki.tcl.tk/10366

Was the archive sold off too or did he do  rm -rf ./ right after the sale ?

I'm sure there's enough people out there with copies of the emails that an archive could be reconstructed.

My Gmail archive seems to go back to 10th of april 2008!

Has Greg, being the owner of the PEG emails, given permission for anyone to reconstruct the content? As this was a topic that has come up in the past.

I have shared my collection earlier, and I think I still have a lot of them. PEG, WebSpeed, DB, .Net or something.... just tell me what to do :-)

Not sure we need his approval.  Does he own the emails sent to the mailing list ?

PEG.com does not exist as a Progress focused site.  That does not mean that Greg does not exist.  At the very least, if someone wanted to do something with archives, the courteous thing to do would be to contact Greg for his feelings and interests.  If he were supportive, he clearly should have the best archive of anyone.

For the record, the idea is that the individual sending the email has copyright on their own message, but Greg has copyright on the collection.  Consider an anthology of poetry - each poem is copyright by the individual poet, but the compiler has copyright on the collection.

I think we need to respect Greg's position.  Just because he shut down the site does not automatically put the content into the public domain.

The whole point of subscribing to a mailing list is to avoid the whole "public domain" "thing". And the ida of generating traffic and adding content to someone elses "stack" just doesn't sit well with me. Just because everything can be in public view, doesn't mean it should be. So don't link with me , don't follow me and don't like me :)

for what it's worth,

from https://web.archive.org/web/20160430155214/http://www.peg.com/about/

PEG reserves to itself all distribution rights to the PEG collection of mailing lists in any form. Messages or posts submitted to PEG become the property of PEG. Corporate members may distribute the PEG collection to their employees while their membership is active, but may not make the collection public.

Greg can assert whatever he wants - when this topic was discussed a few years ago what I found seemed to indicate that this kind of copyright only applies to collections where an editor added value - not to content replicated through an mailing list server.

Would you not agree that the hosting and distribution to the subscribers "added value"?  And as to editing, would the control and prevention of spam and of advertising be a form of management of the content?

Absolutely that added value. I appreciate it a great deal. I am sorry to see it go.

However, Greg's assertion that all individual posts are his property has no legal standing. Copyright must be transferred explicitly. There is a legal process for doing it and that's not it.

Has Greg said anything on the matter? Is he on the Progress Communities? I did not see where he said his plans for the future (if any).

Wherever the legal fine points may come out, it would clearly be a major slap in the face to one of the oldest and most respected members of the ABL community to do something without Greg's blessing.  Yes, he is on communities and I have pointed him at this thread, but we will see what happens.  Among other things, I know that Greg has had some significant health challenges in recent years, so that is another reason to cut him some slack.  If you want to do something positive, find someone who is willing to commit resources so that there is a real proposal in front of Greg which has a chance of actually working.  Vague statements of "we should do something" aren't likely to capture much attention.

Gus, I don't think that Greg meant to imply that copyright to the individual message had transferred, but rather that, once submitted, the message was a part of the collection.  I.e., if he wanted to publish the collection elsewhere, he would not have to go back to each message sender and obtain a new release since sending the message to a public list implied permission to publish.

Nothing that I said was intended to cast aspersions on Greg.

As I said, I greatly appreciate his running the peg as long as he did.

[quote user="Thomas Mercer-Hursh"] find someone who is willing to commit resources so that there is a real proposal in front of Greg which has a chance of actually working.  Vague statements of "we should do something" aren't likely to capture much attention. [/quote]

With the state of the open source technology its a matter of standing up a VPS, installing the software, making sure the configurations are all good, and then getting out of the way so it could do its job. Once a system's installed the only thing left is to check for bounces and get the machine off the inevitable anti-spam black lists.  This platform would've also allowed html - thus solving the plain-text only issue, provided automated archives, and the like. 

I've run mailing lists like this for years and in the past have offered to help transition the PEG to such a platform. Had Greg made the PEG's impending shutdown and sale known, I could've had a replacement machine up and running inside of an evening's worth of work. 

I still can, and, in fact, so could anyone else that's a reasonably good SA. The cost is minimal - ~$10 / month for the VPS with Digital Ocean, the domain name registration fee, and whatever time is required to check it once in a while. 

http://mail.tdkcs.com/sympa is where I host the mailing lists I run off of tdkcs.ca and tdkcs.com. www.sympa.org is the software I use. 

Is this a "concrete enough" of a proposal?

"Is this a "concrete enough" of a proposal?"

To me it's not clear what's the aim of that proposal? In this thread two things were discussed:

a) Making an possibly complete archive of the PEG available. To whom? To former PEG subscriber (do we know them)? To the wide public?

b) Starting a new forum, hoping to reach the same subscribers?

peg.com is gone. And with that the chance to seamlessly replace it. So with moving to tdkcs we'd just be opening a new forum, distributing the community and it's doubtful that it receives the same tracktion the peg.com had.

I still doubt we need a new forum. Given the alternatives out there.

I wouldn't want it under tdkcs.* anyway, it would need to have its own domain.

People'd asked for a proposal. I've put one out there. If there's interest, it'll get done. If not...that's ok too.

I have been avoiding adding my $0.02CAD but I need to backup Mike: I DO NOT WANT the community splintered any more than it already is!  Remember when progresstalk came out?  

There is already this site, plus one on FB and a few on LinkedIn. The FB site tends to be less technical and more social so it doesn't really compete with Community but people are asking technical questions on LinkedIn.

If you have the time and willingness to do something concrete, find out who replaced Jean Richert and see if that person can work *with* Greg to get the archive somehow available HERE.

Here's my ZAR 0.02 (which is worth waaaaay less than CAD :) )...

I'm inclined to agree with Mike and Paul and various others here, that the best value for everyone is one strong community, rather than a number of different platforms scattered about.

For this to thrive ever more - the Progress and Telerik folks should be actively involved (many are already), but should be very careful NOT to use this as a marketing platform.  Then I believe that this platform will become truly valuable.

But - lets not overlook what the peg and others have done for the community before Progress provided this 'official' alternative...

I agree with Mike that there is little point in resurrecting PEG as another mail list at a new address.  For that matter, there is already the one on Google Groups groups.google.com/.../ and groups.google.com/.../ which that guy set up some years ago to echo the PEG traffic.  The point is in getting a searchable archive of the historical mail.  That seems more technically difficult.

> The point is in getting a searchable archive of the historical mail.  That seems more technically difficult.

If someone has it in a gmail label it's a matter of downloading that with thunderbird into an mbox format and go from there (done that in the past, it was easy). Or maybe google's data export could also be used (never done that.)

Or even better if Greg could just give someone interested the archive, assuming he still has it and health allows. I've juggled around mail archives in the past, it's hardly rocket science.

I have a label for the peg mail, but only for what arrived after about 2012, so better archives probably exist.

Regarding community fragmentation, no one that I know of,  put a projectile launching device near anyone's head and forced them to start posting answers in stacknightmare or linkedspamming or progress-something-other-than-peg places.

For now "here" is a great temporatry bandaid, as long as it doesn't include too much dirty laundry... (and p l e a s e someone get rid of the "Contact Sales" link at the top right hand corner!)

All this should  make for a good t beer consuming discussion next week.