Posted by Thomas Mercer-Hursh on 03-Nov-2006 13:55

Given the purpose of a PSDN Professional or Premier subscription, why does the SDK not include all of the PSC products? Don't they want us to experiment with Sonic ESB, Apama, EasyAsk, DataXtend, XQuery, etc.?

All Replies

Posted by Tim Kuehn on 03-Nov-2006 14:22

You're supposed to buy them all before you try them out!

Posted by jtownsen on 06-Nov-2006 02:55

You should find that SonicMQ® Professional Developer Edition and Sonic Integration Workbench are part of the PSDN subscriptions for 2006. As for whether any of the other products you mentioned might be part of PSDN for 2007, I can't say, but if you're interested in them, I'd recommend talking to your local sales rep.

Posted by khowell on 06-Nov-2006 06:52

PSDN is a product offering for OpenEdge. Until we decide to change the strategic direction of PSDN to incorporate all product under the Progress umbrella, we will only include in the SDK products that complement OpenEdge. In 2007 we are planning to include evaluations for some of these products.

Certainly if you would like to evaluate any other Progress product, please contact your local sales rep.



Posted by Thomas Mercer-Hursh on 06-Nov-2006 10:40

The message at Exchange was that all of these products "complement OpenEdge". Certainly, the full Sonic ESB suite and accompanying products are a key part of Progress' SOA offering ... for OpenEdge, not just for non-Progress products! The only product which might be questionable as being complementary is DataXtend and that only because it doesn't yet support any released Progress version. If the message of that great bookstore demo is, "look how all these Progress products work together to achieve this clever solution", then they ought to all be in OpenEdge. Doesn't AutoEdge have a piece that requires Sonic ESB? Wouldn't it be great to keep adding pieces to AutoEdge that demonstrated the rest of these products? And, wouldn't that require a way to have those products without first committing thousands of dollars?

Posted by khowell on 06-Nov-2006 11:04

PSDN includes Sonic ESB and SonicMQ.

2006.3 announcement:


AutoEdge is outside the scope of the PSDN SDK.

If you'd like a copy of any other Progress Corp. product, you can talk to your local sales rep and get an evaluation.



Posted by Thomas Mercer-Hursh on 06-Nov-2006 11:23

Didn't I just ask you this question off line and you told me that web page was inaccurate? My 2006.3 includes a green sheet with keys for the Integration Workbench and for "SonicMQ Prof Dev E", which I assume is SonicMQ Professional Developers Edition.... no ESB in sight.

The come from different origins and purposes, to be sure, but one has to recognize that one of the problems with AutoEdge as an example is that its richness requires a rich array of software underneath it in order to be able to demonstrate all of its capabilities. Few shops are going to have all of that software available ... unless they have a PSDN subscription ... exactly for the purpose of being able to explore all these technologies for their possible utility. In that respect, PSDN SDK and AutoEdge are delightfully complementary.

Mind you, I think all these products should be in the SDK even if AutoEdge didn't exist. It is merely that AutoEdge provides a preconstructed way to illustrate the use of the technologies.

Posted by khowell on 06-Nov-2006 11:50

Yes, Thomas you did ask me offline that very question. While attempting to update the newsletter page, it was brought to my attention the full understand what SonicESB is. The website is actually correct and it was only missing reference to Sonic MQ (which was my confusion), which was updated today.

The Sonic ESB 7.0 product family release includes the new Eclipse-based Sonic Workbench™ that dramatically accelerates the modeling, configuration, testing and deployment of projects across large-scale, distributed SOA environments.

The new, Eclipse-based Sonic Workbench™ 7.0 provides an integrated SOA toolset to streamline a project lifecycle. This is included in your PSDN SDK.

You will only see SonicMQ and Sonic Workbench on your green sheet.

I was going to update you with this information via email yet I got caught up with responding to you via the forum where these questions were also posted.



Posted by Thomas Mercer-Hursh on 06-Nov-2006 12:00

While I am fuzzy on the details, I am aware that the workbench includes tools for designing many or all of the components of ESB, but what about the deployment components? SonicMQ Prof Dev E is definitely not the same thing as Sonic ESB.

Posted by jtownsen on 06-Nov-2006 12:02

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the Sonic Workbench is like the super-set of all sonic products required for development. ie, it includes Sonic ESB, Sonic MQ and the Sonic Workbench itself...

Posted by jtownsen on 06-Nov-2006 12:03

Perhaps you could tell us what you're trying to do that you can't do with the Sonic Workbench. That might make it easier to figure out which bits you think you are missing??

Posted by Thomas Mercer-Hursh on 06-Nov-2006 12:10

As I said, I do have the understanding that the workbench provides something like a superset of the development capabilities. But, to actually test anything, one needs the deployment products as well, no? What good does it do me to create a workflow for the Orchestration Server if I don't have a copy of the Orchestration Server to deploy it to? And how do I test to decide if this is how I want to go without it. Sure, eval licenses if the situation is immediate and concrete enough, but I thought the whole point of the SDK was to provide us with a base set of products so that we could try things.

Posted by Thomas Mercer-Hursh on 06-Nov-2006 12:11

Having only had it loaded for 2 days, I don't know what I can't do yet. But, it seems reasonable to expect that, if I don't have the deployment products, I can't do deployment for testing.

Posted by khowell on 06-Nov-2006 12:12

Thank you for your feedback. I will look into this.



Posted by ChUIMonster on 06-Nov-2006 18:33

The message at Exchange was that all of these

products "complement OpenEdge"...

Not only at Exchange but the "Innovation Roadshow" has been all about how all of these products work together.

I agree -- the SDK should obviously include all of them. Anything less is, well, less.

Posted by jtownsen on 07-Nov-2006 02:22

Maybe we should make a comparison to the OpenEdge products. If you have OpenEdge Architect or OpenEdge Studio (either purchased or evaluation editions), you have the possibility to start 2 of each of the AppServer and WebSpeed agents. You didn't have to order the Application Server product and you didn't even have to enter serial codes for them.

Of course, the ability to use these components is strictly and some of the higher end functionality (eg. more than 2 agents/broker, Name Server Load Balancer, etc) is not there.

With the Sonic Workbench, you should have all the things you need to test the functionality of everything you can design.

Posted by ChUIMonster on 07-Nov-2006 06:39


But a significant part of the attraction of the PSDN SDK, which we pay for, is that it includes licenses that permit realistic testing of realistic deployment scenarios. The Enterprise database license, for instance, is for 300 users.

There is a very distinct and qualitative difference between 2 and 300.

Just as there is a distinct and qualitative difference between "windows only" and "all platforms".

Also, while Sonic is obviously the most mature complimentary technology, this isn't just about Sonic. The message from Progress, the parent company, is that everything under the Progress umbrella is good for us and our customers and that it should all be considered when we are designing solutions. (Even though there may be some things that are currently somewhat better integrated than others.) A big part of the perceived point (and value) of the SDK is that it is "everything" in one package precisely so that we may have all of the tools necessary to do so at our disposal and on our whim.

I can understand and appreciate that it may take a few cycles to get a new acquisition or a new product in a suitable state to be rolled out to the SDK. That's less than ideal but understandable. But it is, at best, myopic to claim that Apama, Actional, DataXtend, EasyAsk, ObjectStore and so forth do not belong in the SDK as full-fledged products. Especially when you have big, bold and splashy presentations in front of 1,000 or so of your closest admirers extolling how well they all work together as a family.

Of course the SDK is not for deployment. But it is missing the point to use that as an excuse to exclude "high end functionality" and whole products. The very point of the SDK is to make high end functionality and products available. Presumably that is because an enlightened person somewhere in the hierarchy understands that if partners have such access they are much more likely to embed such products in their solutions which will, in turn, lead to far greater license revenue for Progress.

Posted by Thomas Mercer-Hursh on 07-Nov-2006 10:44

With the Sonic Workbench, you should have all the things you need to test the functionality of everything you can design.

Perhaps ... and perhaps not ... little limitations seem to creep in from time to time. Like 2 agents doesn't really allow for much of a stress test or for an application design in which load is spread across cooperating agents.

Also, as I understand it, the SDK doesn't include any tech support on any of the deployment products. So, what happens when I try my experimental test deployment and run into a problem? I have had to maintain my maintenance on my internal workgroup database license and client networking ... even though I have enterprise database in the SDK.

And, of course, Sonic Workbench doesn't do anything for Apama or EasyAsk or ...

Posted by npowers on 07-Nov-2006 18:56

Keep in mind that a couple of the newer products don't have a separate developer product at this time. These products started as a large enterprise products where there was no distinction between development and deployment licenses.

We're working on figuring out how to create package-able development versions on some of these pieces now. It is our goal that PSDN subscribers be able to experience the full range of what we have to offer. Where we can't have separate products, we're working on how to put together evaluation copies for PSDN.

Stay tuned.

Posted by Bill Wood on 30-Aug-2010 08:20

(This is a much later response to an old thread, but the thread contains some information that seems to need clarification)

Sonic Workbench (the product and download) has a number of parts.

  • One part is the Eclipse Tooling -- this is sometimes referred to as "Workbench" and that is the source of some confusion.
  • A Sonic Domain Manager -- this is the same as the deployment version of Sonic
  • A Sonic Message Broker -- by default Sonic Workbench installs one broker for messaging, but you can add others through SMC
  • Development Containers for all the runtime products (SonicESB, DB Service, BPEL, etc)

This is unlike OpenEdge Architect which runs code inside an embedded PVM within Eclipse.   Sonic Workbench has the eclipse portion as well as all the runtime/deployment components for all the Sonic products.  Whenever you "run" or 'test' in Sonic Workbench, then you are really deploying items to proper runtime containers and runtime deployments.

There are a few differences.   The defaults for containers in Sonic Workbench installations are set up to help developers with debugging, and are not configured for high performance.  So you should not use Sonic Workbench for Performance testing (but equally, you should not use SonicMQ Professional Developer Edition for this either).

Of note:

  • All Sonic ESB containers in Workbench are configured with TEST_CONTAINER_MODE=true
    • This allows for:
      • minimal caching of configurations (so that changes made in Eclipse can be used immediately)
      • Debugging/Run Handlers that report status of ESB Process execution back to the Eclipse plug-ins
  • All Sonic ESB "Dev"  containers are set to have intra-container messaging turned off
    • This allows for more separation between services (and fewer opportunities for bottlenecks), but it is 'slower'
    • It allows you to monitor the message flow between services with JMS listeners
  • sonicfs:///workspace is automatically mapped to the Eclipse workspace
    • Normally you need to upload files to the Sonic Directory Service.   In a Workbench install, the Directory Service simply maps the sonicfs:///workspace folder to the Eclipse workspace so any file saved to the file system in the logical workspace is instantly visible to Sonic ESB containers.

The bottom line here is that all the Sonic runtimes are available in Sonic Workbench.

Posted by Thomas Mercer-Hursh on 30-Aug-2010 09:39

Yes, but one can't actually set up a test deployment configuration as one would for a real installation, which seems to me a major limitation in terms of both self-education in how to do full installations and in terms of proof of concept testing.

This thread is closed