Getting started with Amazon

Hi Bart

The 4th paper is currently in review and so should be available very soon.  In the mean time if you have specific questions then please let us know.  I'm also interested to hear what your plans/thoughts are around deploying your app in the cloud.  Did you see our Progress Arcade announcement at Exchange Online?  If not I encourage you to register at http://web.progress.com/en/openedge/arcade.html

Thanks

Mike

Hi Mike,

Thanks for the quick answer.  I will follow it up when it's available.

I saw the Arcade announcement on exchange 2010.  I'm very interested, but I've heared it would be available by the begin of 2011 ?  I don't know if I have to wait for that or not.

Problem is that we have a new app. that has to become available in Nov. 2010.  We're thinking of housing the app with Webclient on the available space of another Progress Partner.  Problem is that we don't have the knowledge to configure a server with redhat etc. to deploy the webclient.  I was hoping that Amazon would give us the answer, or maybe Arcade.

For me it isn't clear what kind of technology is needed to go on the cloud.  Is it always web-client deployment, or is there a possibility to make a very thin client so that nothing has to be installed on the client-side.  We are using OE Studio, so I don't know if we have to move to Architect, etc.  As you see, many questions, and we're looking for answers.

Kind regards

Bart

You don't have to wait for Arcade.

Amazon EC2 is a supported environment now.

There are quite  a few choices for how you set things up when using Amazon. To a great extent one can think of an Amazon AMI it as just a plain old Linux or Windows machine, or a number of them. You can use it as a server, or you can put clients and servers there.

I have worked with an OpenEdge Architect instance that was running on EC2 Windows and I was using it through remote desktop. The UI was quite responsive, much better than I would have expected.

You can use a WebClient installed on local client machines communicating with server(s) running in Amazon.

You should start by doing some experimentation to familiarize yourself with the environment and its capabilities. Try some things.

Hi Gus,

Thanks for the reply.  I think I have to wait for the fourth, etc document coming out about 'Getting started with Amazon'.  I really don't know where to start.  In the first documents you can set up an account and start a remote desktop etc.  But how to deploy the application in the cloud is a big question for me.  If I would use Webclient, I wouldn't know where to start and what I need.  What sort of webserver etc do I need for that ....

I was also thinking of Microsofts 'Remote App', released in windows server 2008 where you can start an application like it's on your own desktop.  A bit the same as Citrix, but I don't know if Progress supports this, and if it's possible.  It would be a bit easier than have to install the webclient with all the problems about security etc.  Do you have any experience on Microsofts 'Remote App' or if it's possible on Amazon ?

Kind regards

Bart Syryn

It sounds as if you think deployment in the cloud is somehow inherently different than other deployment.  As I understand it, thre are exactly the same deployment options in the cloud as there are on one's own servers.  There are some additional facilities which relate to how you get a running image, but the image itself is just the same as what you would do at "home".

Hi Bart,

I think you are asking 2 different questions here.

1) Is "how should I deploy my application to the internet"

2) Is "how do I deploy in the cloud"

Lets answer 2 first.  Deploying in the cloud is merely putting your current application on virtual machines in internet (in this case Amazon EC2).  So if your current deployment is Windows XP clients to a Linux AppServer and Database you would start a Windows XP machine and a Linux machine in the Amazon EC2, install your application on each, and Remote Desktop into the Windows XP machine and run your application as usual.  This is what the "Getting Started in the Cloud" papers will help you to do.  The 4th paper to "Getting Started in the Cloud" will explain managing and monitoring your application in the Amazon EC2.

Question 1 is not covered by the "Getting Started" papers.  There are many ways to deploy your application to the internet.  Web client is definitely one way to deploy to the internet and WebSpeed is another. Many customers are using Microsoft Silverlight to give a rich internet UI to their applications.  This question can only be answered by you.

As to your "Remote App" question, I don't know that answer to that.  I will have to research "Remote App".  If Microsoft Windows supports "Remote App" I see no reason why it shouldn't work in the Cloud.

Regards, Roy

In many ways, as Thomas says, think of your Amazon Windows server just like any other Windows server, that just happens to be running in a remote data center.  So in order to deploy & install your application, how would you do that on any other form of remote server?  For example, you could use Remote Desktop, map a drive back to your local machine, and run an install.  You could copy up your install files to the server and run them, etc.  The key is to make sure you also have the appropriate Security Groups sets up to allow whatever port access you require, as discussed in the Cloud papers.

Hi,

Thanks to all the persons who are patient enough to answer my questions.

It's clear what Amazon does, you can use it like 'remote desktops' on the internet.

I was hoping to find some info on how to deploy.  It's not an option to give the end-user a 'remote desktop' in the Amazon cloud.  So we need something else.  Webclient is an option, but problem is, that in the white papers of webclient, you find everything about deploying the webclient from a progress point of view, but I don't know what I need on the server-side.  I can imagine that you need something like a webserver etc.

I don't know if webspeed is an option because the app. is a simple OE Studio UI application where UI, business logic and database access is split and working with the appserver.  I assume that for webspeed you have to use another UI.

I was thinking of Remote App because, you don't need the webclient.  If you want, you could run an old client-server app. in the cloud.  Instead of starting a Remote Desktop, you just start one app. by using the technology of RDP.  The users doesn't see that it's a remote desktop.

I'll have to look further to make the right decission.

Kind regards

Bart Syryn

Cloud is like VMware server. You create new VMware virtual server on your own hardware. In cloud you create it on Amazon servers.

You install your software on cloud server just like your own VM server and work with it just like with any server.

So it is possible (unix installation) to use TTY clients to connect host application resided on cloud,

And use your windows client to connect appserver/db resided on cloud.

The only diffrence - you have to change path to access appservers/db and make sure that your connection secure enough.

Cloud gives you a bonus to create new instance of server in few minutes. You dont have to install new VM server. You can just copy it. So it takes a time for first instance to setup all, just like you setup your own server.

Maxim.

Do I understand that you currently have a AppBuilder application which is running an ABL client against AppServer on the server?

If so, then all you need for the cloud is to put those same server components on the Amazon server.

Webclient is an option if you want to avoid the local Progress install on each client ... but that is an option that is independent of whether or not the server is in the cloud.

Things like webspeed are an option, as is OpenClient, but that is an architecture shift from where you are and implies significant transformation of your application ... transformation which you could undertake whether or not you use the Cloud.

The only way in which moving the server to the Cloud influences your choice of deployment options is if the move to the cloud is being done for reasons that imply a need for a different kind of deployment.  I.e., if the reason for the cloud is to provide wider access, then you might want to get rid of the need to have a local Progress install on the user's machine.  If these are casual users, then you might have a reason to develop RIA or simple HTML clients, but if the users are dedicated then certainly the easy move is to WebClient with the same code you are running today (provided, of course, that all the database access is currently in the AppServer code, not the client).

Another possibility, regardless of which machines are running UI, application and database, is Citrix' XenApp.

Where Amazon is offering infrastructure on a virtual basis, you can think of XenApp as a way to offer an application (one install – or, more flexible/portable as a streamed app although that will require WebClient) virtually.

But on pricing I don’t think it’s cheap. There are of course other players on the market of "application virtualization".

Hi folks,

Thanks to all the people who replied to my posts.  Now it's getting clear ...

At this moment, we're thinking of using the webclient.

Kind Regards

Bart