OE 12 !

Posted by dbeavon on 07-Mar-2019 14:22

Congratulations to Progress on the new OE 12.

Does this mean that OE 10.2B is entering the "retired" phase? 

I tried the product availability link that is published here and there wasn't any information:

https://docs.progress.com/category/whats-new-in-12

Thanks! David

Posted by Shelley Chase on 07-Mar-2019 20:02

The following tables says it is entering the retired phase 2019-March,

community.progress.com/.../1501.openedge-product-availability-guides-and-life-cycle-guide

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Posted by Shelley Chase on 07-Mar-2019 20:02

The following tables says it is entering the retired phase 2019-March,

community.progress.com/.../1501.openedge-product-availability-guides-and-life-cycle-guide

Posted by Etienne Begin on 07-Mar-2019 20:26

When was it decided that 10.2B would be retired on March 2019 ?

Posted by Mike Fechner on 07-Mar-2019 20:30
A decade ago?

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Etienne Begin

When was it decided that 10.2B would be retired on March 2019 ?

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Posted by Etienne Begin on 07-Mar-2019 20:47

No way this was known a decade ago lol Are you trying to make me look bad ?

Posted by dbeavon on 07-Mar-2019 20:53

I think it's based on the fact that OE 12 is here now.  IE. Progress can't support every past version of their software.  

It is challenging to simultaneously support two versions.  Progress will have to take support calls from everyone on OE 12 and a OE 11.7 , despite the fact that the underlying software looks and works quite differently.

Posted by Mike Fechner on 07-Mar-2019 20:56
Seriously OE12 was announced over two years ago. Delayed a bit during 2018.

You cannot really be surprised that with the release of OE12, OE10 is retired.

And I'm pretty sure, that in a decade from now OE11 will be retired too.

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No way this was known a decade ago lol Are you trying to make me look bad ?

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Posted by Etienne Begin on 07-Mar-2019 21:42

It's not only 10, but 11.6.  I do not plan to keep my clients on decade old OE versions.

Do you keep your clients on mature OE versions only ?  I have that requirement on some.

Posted by Rob Fitzpatrick on 07-Mar-2019 22:07

> It's not only 10, but 11.6

The established minimum support duration for 11.x point releases (at least since 11.3-ish) is three years from release to retirement.  OE 11.6 became active in October 2015, so its life was about 3.5 years.

Posted by Mike Fechner on 07-Mar-2019 22:50
Our most historic end user site we're maintaining is on 11.6.3 - I must admit. We're upgrading it to 11.7.4 next month. Puh!!!

The ISV's using our framework product are typically in the process of modernizing their applications. Which kind of implies being current on OE too. For various reasons we're formally supporting our developer framework on 11.3, .4, .6 and .7 with current service pack levels. And certification for 12.0 will probably happen next week. We dropped support for 10.2B mid 2017 I believe.

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Update from Progress Community
Etienne Begin

It's not only 10, but 11.6.  I do not plan to keep my clients on decade old OE versions.

Do you keep your clients on mature OE versions only ?  I have that requirement on some.

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Posted by dbeavon on 07-Mar-2019 23:55

Just because it is "retired" doesn't mean you can't use it.  There are plenty of third parties who would gladly take a check from a customer, and say that they are "supported".  My theory is that customers are happy to write checks so, when things go wrong, they can pass-the-buck (and it is totally irrelevant how well the problems are actually resolved).

I hear of people still running Progress v 9.

I'm curious if anyone has any predictions about the pace that customers will start to adopt OE 12.  For example, how long until approx. 50% of all licensed OE customers are upgraded to OE 12?  Is that likely to take 2, 5, or 10 years?  Sorry if the question is off-topic, but I've always beleived that OE upgrades happen at a leisurely pace.  Maybe that is more true of OE-on-UNIX, and not necessarily as true for OE-on-linux or OE-on-windows.

Posted by Rob Fitzpatrick on 08-Mar-2019 00:08

> I'm curious if anyone has any predictions about the pace that customers will start to adopt OE 12.

Worth discussing, and I think it's on-topic given that the topic is OE 12.

There's a lot to like in 12.0, including features that will be fleshed out and improved over time, like SSJ.  I think the big blocker for adoption will be the array of de-supported features, products, and deployment platforms.

Posted by Etienne Begin on 08-Mar-2019 13:33

dbeavon, the retired phase is not meant for development.  Of course it works, but this is not what Progress recommends: "You should not continue to develop and deploy applications with Retired Phase products. Retired Phase products will NOT evaluate products for certifications on new operating environments nor will problems found with the product be fixed."

You could say there is an unwritten rule that 11.6.3 will have full support for a few more months.  But I don't know how you can keep a client strictly on mature OE versions, when the latest version mature date is the same as the previous version retired date.

>>I'm curious if anyone has any predictions about the pace that customers will start to adopt OE 12

That depends on us and PSC.  Sometimes progress clients remain dormant for a long time, and they have lots of users, and they have a very old version of OE, and no one talks to them.  Suddenly, they are migrating to another platform.

Etienne

Posted by DimitriG4 on 08-Mar-2019 18:48

[quote user="Rob Fitzpatrick"]

....

Worth discussing, and I think it's on-topic given that the topic is OE 12.

....

...  I think the big blocker for adoption will be the array of de-supported features, products, and deployment platforms.

[/quote]

What array of de-supported features etc  are you speaking of ?  Where is that pdf hiding ?

Posted by Rob Fitzpatrick on 08-Mar-2019 19:00

> Where is that pdf hiding ?

Great question.  To my knowledge, it doesn't exist yet.  Part of it is in the Platform Availability Guide.

This is the (unofficial) list I am aware of, so far.

  • OE Application Server
  • WebSpeed (presumably also WebSpeed Workshop; not confirmed yet)
  • Embedded SQL-89/C
  • Translation Manager
  • Progress Dynamics
  • Synchronous mode in OE Replication
  • MD5 hash and RC4 cipher
  • deployment on HP-UX
  • deployment on Windows Server 2008 R2
  • deployment on Solaris
  • client deployment on Windows 7(?)
  • Personal RDBMS in 32-bit products
Posted by gus bjorklund on 08-Mar-2019 19:50

> On Mar 7, 2019, at 3:28 PM, Etienne Begin wrote:

>

> When was it decided that 10.2B would be retired on March 2019 ?

>

>

>

don’t know when the decision was made, nor does it matter.

10.2B has been active for just about 10 years.

11.0 was released in 2011.

for decades, PSC has supported the current major release (e.g. 11.x) and the previous one. service packs generally supersede the prior service pack. backward compatibility, while not always perfect, has been quite good. 4GL written for one release generally works in subsequent releases.

Posted by mollyfed on 08-Mar-2019 20:13

Unless something has changed in the last 2 odd years I haven't worked there,one of those companies that "would gladly take a check from a customer" to support them is Progress. Retired, if I remember rightly just means support will give "best effort" when doing support. In reality, and maybe I'm still extremely biased in this or it has change but the Progress Support "best effort" is still pretty bloody awesome. About all you lose is certification of new platforms (i.e. windows 2020 if there was such a thing) and there wouldn't be a bug fix of a new issue against those retired releases. That would force you to upgrade to a supported release for that bug fix.

As I say this could of all changed since I left, but it would surprise me if it had. There is still most of the amazing TechSupport engineers that worked there when I did!

Posted by ducity on 08-Mar-2019 22:30

that is a large watershed of products / platform from OE11 to OE12. PASOE may be good, suspect plenty still on OE appserver and webspeed.

Posted by ducity on 08-Mar-2019 22:35

and to build on what Molly said, my experience is that paid Progress support for any version (say V8 or v9) only ends when  the last person leaves Progress who knows anything of the version concerned, oh, and you pay your maintenance.

Posted by Simon L. Prinsloo on 11-Mar-2019 07:20

Do we have to do something to get OEDK subscriptions to include OE12? If not, When can we expect to get OE12 in the OEDK?

Posted by frank.meulblok on 11-Mar-2019 08:45

On the topic of "gladly taking a check" and maintenance, I do believe Progress still charges an increased maintenance fee on retired releases. It's meant as an incentive to stay current, but they certainly won't say no to extra money if you choose to stay in the past instead.

Posted by cverbiest on 15-Mar-2019 14:27

Following information is in a mail from John Ainsworth on Jan 8, 2019.

List of Supported Releases as of March 1, 2019

Product Release Lifecycle Status Basic Support Standard Support Mission-critical Support

OpenEdge Release 12 Active 18% 22% 25%

OpenEdge Release 11 Mature 19% 23% 26%

OpenEdge Release 10 Retired 20% 24% 27%

(The percentages listed are applied to the product License Price.)

Posted by Oleg Kupershmidt on 08-Apr-2019 18:20

[mention:18217590d3fa42cca3661c6d1bc5509d:e9ed411860ed4f2ba0265705b8793d05] OEDK is now updated with 12.0, you can update using Self Service Portal.

Note, retired OpenEdge versions are not included in updated OEDK editions.

Posted by slegian-bva on 08-Apr-2019 22:22

Hi Oleg,

What is the thinking behind removing the retired versions from OEDK? In our experience clients are slow to upgrade and if I get a new client today I would be reluctant to go with 12.0, at least until SP1 comes out. It's one of those unwritten rules with OE, wait for the first SP... Once a business is live with 11.7 they will take a while to upgrade. So as a dev shop we're stuck with 11.7 for longer than PSC might think/like, which means this policy of dropping the dev tools from the dev kit and requiring the purchase of the add-ons a huge pain.

By the way. OE 11.5 is flagged as retired on 2017-Dec. Our OEDK renewal in 2018 included it.The new renewal this month does not include it. So this "retired versions are no longer in OEDK" seems a bit new/arbitrary...

Cheers,
Simi

Posted by Oleg Kupershmidt on 09-Apr-2019 13:14

[mention:44648c1e45f647fc9e4a25fb8a7fb196:e9ed411860ed4f2ba0265705b8793d05],

OEDK is a good alternative to perpetual license plus recurring maintenance model, and a simplified way to subscribe to a rich collection of Active and/or Mature OpenEdge versions. In recognition of what you just described Simi, Progress also offers to OEDK subscribers a way to add retired versions with the help of OEDK Add Ons. Yes, there is additional cost (reflecting the fact that the products are retired) but then we are talking about pricing, not availability.

You are correct about retired release 11.5 included in OEDK till recently. It was a mistake on our part and we are not going to back charge anyone now. We simply corrected the mistake.

Posted by slegian-bva on 09-Apr-2019 22:39

Thanks [mention:ff19c4250db54b2cad70c7e502acff94:e9ed411860ed4f2ba0265705b8793d05]|, I like that backcharge bit. Reminds me of "the bug is in our documentation, rather that product, so we're fixing the documentation now" line.

Yes, the add-ons are available. I don't believe it is common practice among dev shops to charge (quite a bit I might add) for older versions. I mean after all we still pay for the OEDK so PSC is getting paid their due, and you could simply say there is no support for retired licenses, but here's the media should you need it. All I really need from a dev perspective is the ability to compile and run the code with the retired product. No support, nothing else. There is 0 cost for PSC to include that in OEDK...

Cheers,
Simi

This thread is closed