Hi all,
In response to Salvador's request I want to express my concerns about the 4GL.
Why? The marketing power of MS regarding C#, .Net, etc is overwhelming. They are doing a good job creating an universal programming environment with the .Net framework. This ".Net 2003/2004" environment allows you to create mobile applications, windows gui app's and web apps within one programming environment (and one programming library). Next steps are "Visual Studio for Office" (Office automation using .Net languages), writing MS SQL Server stored procedures with .Net languages (codename "Yukon"), object relational persistance (.Net 2.0 in 2004).
I used to do some java programming as well, but MS really "borrowed" the good things from Java to create a better programming environment. Right now it's pretty hard to write a portable "enterprise java application" that will run on any "EJB-server"...
My major concerns with MS are the fact they're entering the ISV-area, their license policy and their record of dropping technologies. The european union (EU) and local governments are investigating open source projects to reduce vendor lock in and license costs (http://www.cetis.ac.uk/content/20011010125150)
So, the good thing about Progress is, it runs on Unix/Linux as well! The 4GL hides low level complexities for developers, but sometimes that's a nuisance as well Low level constructs have been introduced, which reduces the readability of current 4gl apps. Progress claims that the 4GL is the best tool to write business logic. That might be true when using a progress database, but supporting MSSQL/Oracle through a DataServer afterwards is a different ballgame.
I think the 4GL should be focusing on location transparancy and abstracting persistence and user interface. Focus on declaration and flexibility. That would make a difference compared to .Net for instance. Microsoft is working on a data oriented language (like "X#"), since Java, C#, C++ etc are not designed to handle data. Modernizing the 4gl would be a great idea when Progress would consider dropping backwards compatability: introduce a clean 4gl language to write businesss logic using the current 4gl characteristics. Focus on data caching, data batching, security and all the hard things a serious application needs
Theo Albers.
.. o yeah... i really like the simplicity of working with the appserver and webspeed and I'm looking forward to the new features in Progress 10
I think the 4GL should be focusing on location transparancy and abstracting persistence and user interface. Focus on declaration and flexibility. That would make a difference compared to .Net for instance
I agree. Also progress needs a better devolpment model or RAD platform for devloping whether its just straight Progress or building a webspeed driven app. So Nusphere has PHP ed, why in the heck is it that all we have for Progress webspeed is webspeed workshop? Basically a basic browser based notepad and compiler.
Additionally its very frustrating trying to obtain Non generic devlopment information on Progress or specifically webspeed. .NET ASP, PHP have advantages of exposure, a larger support community and vast integration with many third party components, utilities etc.
I get frustrated when I go to the Progress website and their knowledge base and this message board arent even built on progress technologies. Has anyone ever seen a forumn like this built on webspeed?
It's been 6 years and it is still holding!
Regarless of what marketing Microsoft does to .Net, it's still 3GL. Progress is 4GL since the 80's. The sad part is Progress now wants us to program in a 3GL manner like taking care of the memory allocation and controlling the the environment. Care should be taking when using new features in the product. Most application that were originally for the the host-based system runs faster in the "green screen" and efficient since the user does not have to lift their hands off the keyboard to touch that mouse. Of course the GUI looks a lot better. The user gets Windows training and their union can demand higher wages.