OpenEdge Code Share - Reorganized

Posted by bbe on 07-Feb-2008 04:39

There was too much content in the OpenEdge Code Share category which made it harder to find materials, some content/descriptions have also been changed to clarify and content is moved into new sub-categories.

All Replies

Posted by Tim Kuehn on 07-Feb-2008 08:11

I like the re-org, however a number of the "last modified" dates on the files appear to've been changed to Feb 2008. Could they be set back to their original values?

Posted by Thomas Mercer-Hursh on 07-Feb-2008 11:08

That last modified problem is PSDN wide. I am constantly getting e-mails that suggest something new about a library page which turns out to be something about V9 which just got touched for a new expiration date or something, not even any updates.

Posted by bbe on 07-Feb-2008 11:24

Yes, I know, sorry for that, I can't change that.

What I could do is add a version date, you would still get an altert it's modified but then you could see at the version date if it changed or not.

Posted by bbe on 07-Feb-2008 11:27

see also my other reply.

I can't manually set and/or change the last modified. Even if I fix a typo or anything else, the last modified gets updated.

Posted by Thomas Mercer-Hursh on 07-Feb-2008 12:16

Version date ... if easily seen, would be a help, but it still means clicking on the link only to find nothing interesting. Version date in the message would be better.

There has to be something ... because the current system is almost useless. When I get blasts of six notices for the same page, I just tune out on all of it, especially when it was an old page I didn't care about to start with.

Posted by Thomas Mercer-Hursh on 08-Feb-2008 13:19

In fact, why not go a bit farther that just a version date?

Many of the PSDN library pages include downloads. How about a version date for each and every download so that if you make some minor change to the text, but no change to the download, we don't have to download it again to see if we can tell what is different.

And how about a date and version history in each document?

Have you noticed the Revisions tab on each page at OE Hive?

Posted by Tim Kuehn on 08-Feb-2008 13:59

I'm thinking an SVN repository may help keep track of what's what.

Posted by Thomas Mercer-Hursh on 08-Feb-2008 14:19

A version control system may well be appropriate for them internally, but I think that is a separate issue from the presentation. Yes, it could be nice to be able to go back and actually look at the differences, especially if there is a presentation or download which one has already read and now there is a new version, but I think the key point initially is just to be able to tell whether or not something is new.

If PSDN has a Recent page like OE Hive does, I wouldn't even need to have the e-mail updates ... at least if it told me that something was actually modified and not just that its expiry date had been updated. One of the virtues of that page over what happens with PSDN now is that if I go in and edit a page 5 times in one day, there is only one entry on the Recent page.

But, without getting very fancy at all one can provide information on whether key points have changed recently. If something is pretty dynamic, like ABHack has been, then it is a lot harder to keep up with all the changes, but at the same time it is clear that it is really changing. If I see an update about new features in V9, it would be nice for it to be clear that nothing has actually changed.

Posted by bbe on 15-Feb-2008 08:37

Posted by bbe on 15-Feb-2008 09:01

I wish people use the "comments" a bit more. I am quilty too but these are excelent places to mention what and if something substantial has changed.

Is there a reason why you all don't use comments?

Posted by Thomas Mercer-Hursh on 15-Feb-2008 11:18

You mean the reader is supposed to comment whether something has changed? Seems like the writer should do that.

In the case of PSDN, it seems much more appropriate when one wants to discuss a posting to do so in the forums where it can be interactive.

Posted by Tim Kuehn on 15-Feb-2008 11:46

I wish people use the "comments" a bit

more. I am quilty too but these are excelent places

to mention what and if something substantial has

changed. Is there a reason why you all don't

use comments?

Stuff like that belongs in release notes or "what's changed", etc. which isn't the same as "comments".

I'm also glad to read you're looking into SVN and the other initiatives that PSC is looking at from the PSC / PUG President's meeting.

One issue I ran into in the past with SVN was how to manage multiple repositories, and "cascading" updates from one repository to another - which SVN doesn't seem to support. This means that if a given repository isn't "the" main repository for a given software package, updates to it will most likely be few and far between. I'm not sure how this could be solved, but this could be an issue with using SVN on PSDN.

If you figure out a way to address this particular problem, I'm sure there would be interest beyond PSDN.

Posted by bbe on 15-Feb-2008 18:09

well, the author could add a comment that content is updated, doc, code, etc. Comments are also notes for both author and users.

Posted by Thomas Mercer-Hursh on 15-Feb-2008 18:25

See the note at the bottom of . This is an example of letting people know what changed.

Comments, to me, seem more appropriate for interaction. I think they are important to the pages at OE Hive where there is no forum, but I think that comments on PSDN library and code share materials are probably better directed to these forums.

Posted by bbe on 18-Feb-2008 02:31

Comments (any shape or form) are "attached" to one or more pieces of (related) content. If there's many more pieces of material covering a larger topic, forums are better suited but I still think that a comment on a piece of material would then best re-direct questions & answers to that/a forum. I believe a comment on one specific piece of material could/should include the notification that code has changed, version is updated, new related documents, etc.

Your sample could very well be done with comments and related documents and a broader forum could exist on MDA/UML or even broader like Design.

It's a matter of choice, favorites, capabilities of the underlying platform, etc. Ah, well, it is not so much right or wrong here...

Posted by Thomas Mercer-Hursh on 18-Feb-2008 11:02

You might want to look back to see what kinds of documents have produced what kinds of comments in the forums. My memory is that most documents produce no comments or questions anywhere, but a few, typically about architectural issues, produce a good discussion and I'm sure that discussion would have been less lively and seen by far fewer people if it occurred as comments on the page. Now, perhaps the author or someone might want to post a comment pointing to the thread, but I think that generally the forum is the right place for any meaningful give and take.

Posted by bbe on 18-Feb-2008 11:18

Exactly what I mean, if it is something specific to the doc, add a comment, if it is more a discussion about concepts, how to, etc. then a forum might be best. For example, would you debate ABHACK in a forum? Probably no but should Sebastiaan add a comment when something changed, I would think so, no?

Posted by Thomas Mercer-Hursh on 18-Feb-2008 12:11

Well, yes, I think Sebastian should include release notes ... especially since he keeps making changes so often! But, I think the author should be using the main body of the text for this. Comments are more for feedback from others, I think. I can only think of a handful of times when I have wanted to make that kind of remark, e.g., something like letting someone know that a link in their whitepaper no longer works, and in those cases I usually know the author and let them know directly. It isn't that I am opposed to comments, but that I feel they aren't very visible unless one goes to that specific page ... something one is not likely to do if one has been there already. This works on OE Hive because of the Recent listing, which does show new comments.

But, much of the time that there is feedback, it is on something broader than the specifics of the document ... or quickly becomes so. It would be cool, though, for the author to add a comment linking to the thread.

Posted by bbe on 18-Feb-2008 13:34

I hear you, I see comments for anyone, authors to announce changes, users to provide feedback, etc...

Anyway, feedback or forum, the more interaction the better.

Posted by Thomas Mercer-Hursh on 18-Feb-2008 13:42

Got a great example of the problem today.

What's New for Internationalization in Progress® Version 9 and 9.1A

No indication of what has changed. This is obviously not new!!!

Posted by bbe on 18-Feb-2008 13:51

Sorry, I do not like it either, I bet you don't see the doc, I actually made an error (moved to wrong category, had to go to archive as it was really old stuff). But as soon as I moved, the category/doc is updated and you get an alert. Reason why I wanted the "version date" AND use comments to indicate what changed. Not ideal but could it work?

Posted by Thomas Mercer-Hursh on 18-Feb-2008 14:04

Most useful would be to be able to suppress the notification unless something meaningful had actually changed. This is true both of this kind of nominal maintenance on something old and certain ham-fisted authors who manage to generate half a dozen notices in the process of making the original post.

Next most useful would be to have a version date and to have that version date included in the notification. This implies that the item I just noted would have some ancient version date and I would know not to go look at it. Even better would be to have an annotation which indicated what had triggered the notice ... similar to check in notes in a version control system.

Next most useful is to have annotations on the page whenever something has changed so that I can tell whether more exploration is needed.

Posted by bbe on 18-Feb-2008 14:35

maybe I should call everyone when something really new is there?

Kidding aside. What you describe is on our list to investigate on the current platform, if too much work (it's cutomizations for sure, not settings I can change), we'll move over to our list of requirements on our future platform.

Posted by Tim Kuehn on 03-Nov-2013 21:13

Has the code share area been re-organized yet again? If so, where are the files now?

This thread is closed